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Is your Tube Tank leaking?

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Is your Tube Tank leaking?

Postby Superfrog » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:45 pm

Ok, I've been reading the forums now that I got back into vaping and noted some folks having some issues... I've run into the tanks flooding a couple of times too, and I've been able to recreate the flooding on a 'good' tank. Now, this may not be everyone, but I think this is what's happening with a fair amount of the ones I've read.

The flooding is created due to a syphon effect. And that syphon effect is started by flooding or over priming the carto to begin with and/or the tank level is TOO full (yes, that can be a problem too). Similar to what happens in a tanko, but it's a little more complex... first...

THE FIX

With a drip tip firmly attached to the cartomizer, push the carto until the weep hole is BELOW the bottom o-ring. The weep hole needs to be airborne to break they syphon. Now, becareful since the top of the tank doesn't have a seal. Also, you'll want to use a DT that is the same diameter as the carto, or if you have an old 510 blank/used cartridge that would work. at this point, you can do one of two things
a. Thow it onto your PV and vape it down some (until after it don't gurgle any more).
b. Blow the excess into a paper towel (then you can throw it onto a PV just to make sure)

Once you do that, puch the carto back into the tank. Be sure, since the carto is undoubtably still very full, don't take any dry 'toots' on if for a bit, that could pull enough juice in to start it over again.

The Problem
First, just to let everyone new know, I have a background in fluid dynamics and physical/partical wave propagation. Soooo, if I ramble on a bit, you know why...

The wicking material, when saturated, will continue to wick above the liquid level in the tank. Simple physics. The liquid also has a surface tension, like water does. Now, these cartos do not have a solid core or a straw or anything like that down the center, just the elements and the polyfil. The surface tension that is created on the 'core' around the elements is what prevents the juice from just running out the bottom of the carto.

When you over prime, you end up putting more juice than the polyfil can handle, or oversaturation. There's only one place for that juice to go, out the middle of the carto. Since you've got gravity pulling down, the juice will expand that surface tension in the core of the carto. So now, if you introduce MORE juice by continuing to vape, or doing dry pulls, you get more over saturation, hence more flooding. The only way to fix this is to get that extra juice out. also, since the surface tension is now inside of the core, it could actually create a syphon and completely drain the tank in the mater of a night. Extreme case, most won't get that far since we most would have taken the darned thing apart or laid the tank on the side.

Also, over filling the tank can cause flooding to happen. You don't want to fill the tank all the way to the top, unless you plan on vaping it down right away. The same reason a straw will wick above the level of the fluid that it's in, the polyfill will wick juice to that point also. and if there's no more wick? Then down the middle it goes, and then we have flooding again.

The Experiment
Had it happen to me a couple of times, the first time or two I drained the tank and removed the carto. I also have a bad habbit from dripping of doing a dry pull to make sure I have juice on the atty. This was also causing some flooding on newly filled tanks of mine.

So I did som thinking, and a little bit of tinkering... I took a newish carto that I've been vaping on for a couple of days that had no leaking issues. I purposely over primed the wick, with the tank near empty, and I got it to flood. Now, I had it off of my PV and watched it drip right out the bottom (and I was dry pulling it periodically). It seemed to stop after a couple of hours... when the juice level was just under the weep hole, and I looked down the top and that there was still juice, just not pooling at the top. Wiped it off, and threw it on a PV as is, yep still had some juice in it. Introduction of air into the wicking material disrupted the pressure created by the wicking... once the filler back to saturation point, it was good to go. I went a step further and filled the tank, after vaping on the carto for a few minutes (to get the fill below saturation), and am still vaping on it without any issues.

I set up another where I over saturated AND overfilled the tank, amost at the top. The way that is draining out, I figure the tank might be empty by the morning. I only did a couple of dry pulls to get that one started.

We didn't have this problem too much with the old style since the hole size did minimize the wicking. So much infact, that it made the cartos a bit of a pain in the back side since you had to reprime the carto periodically. Not saying the bigger weep hole is the problem, no. It was a solution to the first problem, the carto not wicking in the first place. But now that we get good wicking and juice flow into the carto, we do stand a better chance of flooding if we're not careful. I like the new set up, since I can now vape the 7mil tank in a day, and NOT have to stop to gas back up (or prime the carto).

I know this was a long read, and my hats off to ya if you got this far :shock: I hope this helps in understanding how these things work, and don't work. So next time you get some flooding, try and get the carto BELOW saturation. Don't worry if you don't get as many drops as you can in there, even if you get the carto only half primed, once you start tooting on it, it'll catch up.

BTW...
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Re: Is you Tube Tank leaking?

Postby kaneohe247 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:49 am

What do you think about using a syringe w/needle to siphon some of the excess from the carto.
Slide the needle down the side of the polyfil along the side of the metal tube and then suck up some of the excess fluid.
Of course you'd need to have a syringe/needle.
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Re: Is your Tube Tank leaking?

Postby Artist Boy » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:58 am

it could work.. but be careful not to hit any of the wires in there with the needle. it could be bad news if you did.
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Re: Is your Tube Tank leaking?

Postby Superfrog » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:36 am

That might work, but like AB said, you do pose the potential on damaging the element. Another thing would be is that you would still need to break up the liquid that's pooled in the carto core, that'll keep the surface tension in the core and could allow the niquid to still run out.

If you were to attempt to use a syring, I'd immediately vape the carto. Vaping out the excess should then get rid of all that excess juice in the carto core.
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Re: Is your Tube Tank leaking?

Postby Shado » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:02 am

I want to add too...be careful when pulling/reinserting a carto...the edges can scrape/cut the inner o-ring.....Frogs drip tip idea is a great thing to try and use. I myself have a different adapter I use, but, gives the same end result.

Once the o-ring is scarred...it will allow air into the tank and cause the the same effect as over saturated polyfill and core.

Andi if you are the type that breaks down your tank to clean it....same can happen to outer o-rings....upon reassembly. Also, excess pressure putting in the end caps can warp the tube or worse...crack it.

DO NOT cover one end with your hand and use the other to put the top on(blocking the carto holes)....this blocks any air in the tank from escaping, and creates a pressure build up trying to compress what air is in the tank...this will crack the tube as well.
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Re: Is your Tube Tank leaking?

Postby Superfrog » Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:39 pm

Good point on the o-rings, that's why I got extras.

Also, if you use a drip tip to insert the cart, it'll save some wear and tear. The taper on teh DT will compress the o-ring as the carto's being inserted.
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Re: Is your Tube Tank leaking?

Postby mark » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:55 pm

SuperFrog - that was awesome explanation. Thanks for your efforts and sharing them with us!
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Re: Is you Tube Tank leaking?

Postby Puffy » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:09 pm

kaneohe247 wrote:What do you think about using a syringe w/needle to siphon some of the excess from the carto.
Slide the needle down the side of the polyfil along the side of the metal tube and then suck up some of the excess fluid.
Of course you'd need to have a syringe/needle.


I've done it. I have a syringe just for putting in juice, A bit too much I just suck it out. I can feel the wires if I touch them. I just go in the opposite hole. Less flooding and waste.
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Re: Is your Tube Tank leaking?

Postby Puffy » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:18 pm

Superfrog wrote:Good point on the o-rings, that's why I got extras.

Also, if you use a drip tip to insert the cart, it'll save some wear and tear. The taper on teh DT will compress the o-ring as the carto's being inserted.


Superfrog is correct and dont forget to "lube" the tip and sides with a few drops of juice. It really helps with the insertions as to not damage the seal.
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Re: Is your Tube Tank leaking?

Postby Superfrog » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:52 pm

mark wrote:SuperFrog - that was awesome explanation. Thanks for your efforts and sharing them with us!

No problem, my pleasure. Always hoppin to help
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